/d/fraud icon

/d/fraud

14,805 subscribers

Forum topics and responses should be dedicated to increasing user knowledge. Contact users on your own.

Go to /d/carding to discuss stolen cards

Go to /d/fraudship for partnerships

NO CONTACT REQUESTS

RULES

Do not post fullz

WE ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE IF YOU GET SCAMMED

Only vendors on markets can get flairs.

Fraud Resources of 2021 (Pinned post)

by /u/nomtim MOD · 93 votes · 1 year ago

Fullz:

Pp24.ws

Logins:

Hgn01.ru

Cards:

Benumb- fvgmmne4jewb4e46xnknufqdqf5shpgn5pmxlajdu4iuzg25w35re5ad.onion

SSN Lookup:

Just-kill.win

ID Scans:

Scanlab.cc

Physical ID:

Idinstate.ph

Evolvedids.com

Skiptracing Services:

Truthfinder.com

Beenverified.com

Ancestry.com

Xlek.com

Clustrmaps.com

Usphonebook.com

DLN Generator:

Elfqrin.com

EIN Lookup:

Realsearch.com

Melissa.com

SSN Decoder:

www.stevemorse.org/ssn/ssn.html

Credit Report:

Nerdwallet.com

Creditsesame.com

Wallethub.com

Credit.com

Phone Number:

Phoneblur.com

Sms.usmobilenumbers.com

Email Provider:

Gmail.com

Outlook.com

Mail.com

VPN:

Vyprvpn.com

Mullvad.net

Socks5:

Brightdata.com

Ipburger.com

Premsocks.com

Checkers:

check2ip.com

ipqualityscore.com

getipintel.net

dnsleaktest.com

simplednscrypt.org

whatsmyuseragent.com

fraud.cat

fraudcheck.ru

mxtoolbox.com

amiunique.org/fp

pixelscan.net

check2ip.com

browserleaks.com

thesafety.us

leaksradar.com

f.vision

deviceinfo.me

dnscookie.com

fingerprintjs.com

antcpt.com/eng/information/demo-form/recaptcha-3-test-score.html

Virtual Card:

Bluebird.com

Cash.app

Privacy.com

Ezzocard.com

Comments (141)
/u/nomtim MOD OP · 1 votes · 1 year ago (Pinned post) · Link

Special mention to /u/blackpepper /u/Shodann- for sharing the checkers.

/u/jetl7972 · 1 votes · 9 months ago · Link

Many thanks for sharing

/u/FrankBaud · 6 votes · 1 year ago · Link
Service Provider Notes/Information
  • IPMela[.]com
  • Coronium[.]com
  • Virtnumber[.]com
  • Bestproxy[.]net
  • V6proxies[.]com
  • Astroproxy[.]com
  • Infatica[.]io
  • Cosmoproxy[.]com
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  • EtunnelVPN[.]com
  • Surveyproxies[.]com
  • Litport[.]net
  • Proxyworld[.]io
  • Proxy-cheap[.]com
  • Aceproxies[.]com
  • Hydraproxy[.]com
  • Iproxy[.]online
  • Luxproxy[.]com
  • Proxysocks5[.]com
  • Truesocks[.]net
  • Luminati[.]io
  • Oxylabs[.]io
  • Ip-Teleport[.]com
  • DSLroot[.]com
  • DSLrentals[.]com
  • Localproxies[.]com
  • Luxsocks[.]ru
  • Topsocks[.]io
  • Faceless[.]io
  • Proxyguys[.]com
  • IPv4depot[.]com
  • IPBurger[.]com
  • Soax[.]com
  • Anonymous-proxies[.]net
  • Illusory[.]io
  • Massproxy[.]com
  • Proxy-seller[.]com
  • RSocks[.]net
  • ABM[.]net
  • Buypersonalproxy[.]com
  • Zproxies[.]com
  • Supersonicproxies[.]com
  • Proxystore[.]net
  • 911[.]re
  • Cyber-gateway[.]net
  • Proxypanel[.]io
  • Proxyside[.]io
  • Proxytales[.]com
  • Nonymous[.]io
  • Onlinesim[.]io
  • Superproxy[.]shop
  • Omgproxy[.]com
  • Geosurf[.]com
  • ProxyLTE[.]com
  • Residential RDP; Static Residential; Data Center; SOCKS, HTTPS
  • Mobile; Dedicated
  • SMS; Mobile; SOCKS
  • Shared; Dedicated; Residential; Data Center; HTTPS; SOCKS
  • IPv4/IPv6; Residential; Data Center
  • Residential
  • Residential
  • Back Connecting/Rotating; Residential
  • Shared; Dedicated; Residential; Data Center; SOCKS; HTTPS
  • USA Data Center VPN; Mobile; Residential; Dedicated; SOCKS
  • Residential VPN, VPS; Residential; Mobile; SOCKS
  • Residential; Mobile; SOCKS
  • Back Connecting/Rotating; Residential; Mobile; SOCKS
  • Residential; Mobile; Data Center
  • Data Center; Residential; Mobile
  • Data Center; Residential; SOCKS; HTTPS
  • World; Residential; Mobile; SOCKS
  • World; Residential; Mobile; SOCKS; HTTPS
  • Dedicated; Shared; Residential; SOCKS
  • Residential; SOCKS
  • Data Center; Residential; Mobile
  • Not Available
  • Not Available
  • Not Available
  • Not Available
  • Not Available
  • Not Available
  • Not Available
  • Not Available
  • Not Available
  • Not Available
  • Not Available
  • Not Available
  • Not Available
  • Mobile; SOCKS; HTTPS
  • IPv4/IPv6; Data Center; Residential; Mobile; SOCKS
  • Not Available
  • Residential; SOCKS
  • Data Center; Residential; SOCKS
  • IPv4/IPv6; Data Center; Residential; SOCKS
  • Back Connecting/Rotating; Dedicated; Shared; Data Center; Residential
  • Data Center; Residential; SOCKS
  • Residential; Mobile; SOCKS; HTTPS
  • SOCKS
  • Not Available
  • Not Available
  • Not Available
  • Not Available
  • Not Available
  • Not Available
  • Not Available
  • Not Available
  • Not Available
  • Residential; Dedicated; Shared; Mobile; SOCKS
/u/darf · 3 votes · 1 year ago · Link

Thank you, thank you, thank youuuuuuu timm <33

wont believe me but scanlab is EXACTLY what I needed :)

love you

/u/nomtim MOD OP · 3 votes · 1 year ago · Link

Cheers!

/u/jetl7972 · 1 votes · 9 months ago · Link

Would you mind lmk, which wallet is best for holding and transfer XMR?

/u/TeddyBaby · 1 votes · 1 year ago · Link

I cant seem to access it, it just says

Not Acceptable!

An appropriate representation of the requested resource could not be found on this server. This error was generated by Mod_Security.

/u/lilkim · 2 votes · 1 year ago · Link

MVP!!!

/u/bizwiz · 2 votes · 11 months ago · Link

Timeless

/u/svm · 1 votes · 1 year ago · Link

Thanks :)

/u/curlytwat · 1 votes · 1 year ago · Link

Thanks!

However does anyone know of any good guides that would help me use track2 data to clone cards to cashout at atms?

Also who do people think is the best vendor for track2 data?

/u/lucifer366 · 1 votes · 1 year ago · Link

wussup u need some tut of dumps?

/u/anonexecuteofficial · 1 votes · 1 year ago · Link

dumps is a dead era forget it

/u/unruly_bwoy · 1 votes · 7 months ago · Link

Why does everyone say this?

/u/scriptorium · 1 votes · 5 months ago · Link

any method becomes slightly less easy and people jump ship. Only those who are actually do something slightly unique can continue to profit. for example jumping from carding to banks, ignore people claiming something is "dead" if you are good at a particular thing stick at it

/u/Mafia666 · 1 votes · 7 months ago · Link

Bro, need help. new to this cardin don't know where or how to start. I know the basic opsec. And resources that i need.

But need to start but idk.. Pls help here.

/u/theghozt · 1 votes · 6 months ago · Link

I second that. Im in the same boat. I know opsec, and access to the resources just need a simple starter guide from a trusted source.

/u/Notathrowaway · 1 votes · 4 months ago · Link

search up /u/Ginseng in the search bar. He has posted many good resources and free tutorials

/u/anonymousWhiteBoy · 1 votes · 2 months ago · Link

im just beginning i dont know what opsec is. I want to learn and am willing to listen. PLS HELP ME

/u/goodfella1 · 1 votes · 3 months ago · Link

[removed]

/u/AutoModerator M · 1 votes · 3 months ago · Link

NO asking for other users to DM you.

Do not ask users to divert conversations to PMs in any manner. This includes any contact info. To cut down on scams and false sales and transactions, we are instituting temporary bans for users violating this policy.

This comment was posted automatically by a bot. All AutoModerator settings are configured by individual communities. Contact this community's Moderators to have your post approved if you believe this was in error.

/u/Zoeygod33 3 yr club · 1 votes · 1 year ago · Link

thanks man, really appreciate it

/u/Luis99 · 1 votes · 1 year ago · Link

Thanks bro

/u/Emmalou72 · 1 votes · 1 year ago · Link

Thanks heaps!

/u/ItsEric142 · 1 votes · 1 year ago · Link

Thank you !

/u/00001016 · 1 votes · 1 year ago · Link

Thank you :D

/u/TheHighPriestessOfDeath · 1 votes · 1 year ago · Link

Can you help me out, dude? I tried downloading those pdfs but it tells me ''permission denied.'' I'm on Tails OS

/u/morlvob · 1 votes · 1 year ago · Link

download it to Tor browser file, then copy it to persistent

/u/TheHighPriestessOfDeath · 1 votes · 1 year ago · Link

Nevermind. I figured it out.

/u/mysunlight · 1 votes · 1 year ago · Link

SSNDOB site doesnt seem to work for me. any idea what thats about? i put some money into it but it wont show the buy section or anything.

/u/trapnmojo · 2 votes · 1 year ago · Link

need to use https not http

/u/fearthebeast · 1 votes · 1 year ago · Link

Been trying to download mullvad vpn like ginseng recommended but apparently they don't support win7 anymore. Any recommendations?

/u/gangstarr1899 · 1 votes · 1 year ago · Link

update to win 8 or 10 u can get it cracked for free

/u/jetl7972 · 1 votes · 3 months ago · Link

You mean the win or mullvad?

/u/tripleex · 1 votes · 1 year ago · Link

Ty for the updates!

/u/snoozerpowder21 · 1 votes · 1 year ago · Link

thank you!!

/u/lindgreen13 · 1 votes · 1 year ago · Link

Looking for site like slippers.xyz that's sells att, xfinity accounts etc...

/u/WhereIsTheGoodShit · 2 votes · 1 year ago · Link

same, but try goatshop dot gg

/u/darksaga · 1 votes · 9 months ago · Link

is this still good?

/u/Yungiii · 1 votes · 1 year ago · Link

Thanks ;)

/u/stubbock1776 · 1 votes · 1 year ago · Link

My first stop when getting back on ...

/u/Lady_Saw · 1 votes · 1 year ago · Link

This is quality content, thanks for putting this together

/u/monkeyhunter · 1 votes · 1 year ago · Link

thanks mate

/u/otfgbe300 · 1 votes · 1 year ago · Link

is the stripe/braintree still good to try?

/u/motherfuckerjoe · 1 votes · 1 year ago · Link

this is a golden tut! thanks man!

/u/BIGRED1019 · 1 votes · 1 year ago · Link

Amazing :)))

/u/starshiptsunami · 1 votes · 1 year ago · Link

Is there any other SSH providers besides getssh or usock.pro (dead)?

/u/hujintao · 1 votes · 1 year ago · Link

can anybody hook me up with a genesis.market invite?

/u/awusi007 · 1 votes · 1 year ago · Link

i can give you one

/u/MrRamzey27 · 1 votes · 1 year ago · Link

would you mind giving me a hand as well

/u/lovemoney01 · 1 votes · 1 year ago · Link

what up mate i need one to if you dont mind : )

/u/AmishPimp · 1 votes · 10 months ago · Link

if you got the time i need one

/u/qoffmedq · 1 votes · 6 months ago · Link

could you get me one too

/u/therealxmen420 · 1 votes · 4 months ago · Link

An invite to Genesis would be dope dude

/u/Utilities · 1 votes · 4 months ago · Link

Genesis market is down for over a week now

/u/slingmotumbo1234 · 1 votes · 3 months ago · Link

Can you hook me up with an invite if got one and when the site is up please

/u/cinderellabell9 · 1 votes · 11 months ago · Link

Would anyone mind giving me one as well. Noob.

/u/mrniceshroom · 1 votes · 3 months ago · Link

I know this comment was a while ago, but if at all possible, can I get an invite?

/u/Briann1704 · 1 votes · 1 year ago · Link

Please anyone that can help with "benumb shop" invite

/u/lovemoney01 · 1 votes · 1 year ago · Link

all you have to do put benumb in the invite i just set up a account and it worked

/u/mrstrongleg · 1 votes · 1 year ago · Link

I put that in the invite and it didn't work. Can someone please invite me

/u/lovemoney01 · 1 votes · 1 year ago · Link

bro that my bad , i was on a scam site and they took 100 bitcoin. i was on wrong site.. you have to go on white house market

/u/mrstrongleg · 1 votes · 1 year ago · Link

It scammed you?

/u/lovemoney01 · 1 votes · 1 year ago · Link

phishing site. not real one. it was only 100 dallors

/u/mrstrongleg · 1 votes · 11 months ago · Link

Damn gotta get the genesis market invite

/u/yupyup17 · 1 votes · 10 months ago · Link

Need invite as well

/u/iamtheman · 1 votes · 10 months ago · Link

[removed]

/u/AutoModerator M · 1 votes · 10 months ago · Link

NO asking for other users to DM you.

Do not ask users to divert conversations to PMs in any manner. This includes any contact info. To cut down on scams and false sales and transactions, we are instituting temporary bans for users violating this policy.

This comment was posted automatically by a bot. All AutoModerator settings are configured by individual communities. Contact this community's Moderators to have your post approved if you believe this was in error.

/u/kkimtai0 · 1 votes · 6 months ago · Link

[removed]

/u/kkimtai0 · 1 votes · 6 months ago · Link

[removed]

/u/AutoModerator M · 1 votes · 6 months ago · Link

NO asking for other users to DM you.

This comment was posted automatically by a bot. All AutoModerator settings are configured by individual communities. Contact this community's Moderators to have your post approved if you believe this was in error.

/u/Jamboree6390 · 1 votes · 1 year ago · Link

I'm new here i used to do dating but i want to learn more about buying accounts like paypal, bank login, binance etc and how to log them with cookies useragent without any problem. Can someone PLEASE help me with Genesis invite maybe i can get something there that will be useful for me. I don't mind making little money weekly or monthly as long i'm crawling and trying to walk without standstill. Thank you

/u/bushlandlord · 1 votes · 1 year ago · Link

Please I'm a newbie to this, I tried creating account to one of the accounts and I don't know what is jabber. What am I supposed to fill on jabber

/u/0iramxan · 1 votes · 1 year ago · Link

Oh fuck RDP look at that :)

/u/neverwannabebrokeagain23 · 1 votes · 1 year ago · Link

just tried to purchase a id from idinstate.ph the btc sent out but site never confirm my purchase i just join dread to post this because i was looking for a fake id i feel i just got scammed :(

/u/Whitemoney415 · 1 votes · 1 year ago · Link

What’s the best site for bank logs with email access? Seems like they come and go

/u/Djking1300 · 1 votes · 1 year ago · Link

loaded just-kil acc and funds posted but the sms part of the site doesnt work. need more updated sites that sell real sms not voip

/u/ponysandweed · 1 votes · 1 year ago · Link

[removed]

/u/AutoModerator M · 1 votes · 1 year ago · Link

NO asking for other users to DM you.

Do not ask users to divert conversations to PMs in any manner. This includes any contact info. To cut down on scams and false sales and transactions, we are instituting temporary bans for users violating this policy.

This comment was posted automatically by a bot. All AutoModerator settings are configured by individual communities. Contact this community's Moderators to have your post approved if you believe this was in error.

/u/Ddbc123 · 1 votes · 1 year ago · Link

Can anyone help me with a genesis invite. I’d be really appreciative.

/u/lovemoney01 · 1 votes · 1 year ago · Link

you the fucking goat ,, much blessing ; )

/u/Fume Ex Moderator · 1 votes · 1 year ago · Link

Fullz:

ssndob/robocheck

ssn24me

findmecm

unicvv

Physical IDS:

fakeidvendors[dot]com

/u/davidroos · 1 votes · 1 year ago · Link

Hi I'm not sure buh I've been looking for a video cloning app for video and webcam chats

/u/biastothehos · 1 votes · 1 year ago · Link

hey...im a n00b here on dread but this was EXACTLY what i was looking for...so bigtime thanks to whomever compiled this i couldnt be more grateful.

/u/PunyGod · 1 votes · 1 year ago · Link

great post. a lot of the sites are for the US, is there anyone that could post uk sites that do the same jobs. many thanks.

/u/hack3rsc4ms · 1 votes · 1 year ago · Link

Thanks for taking the time to make this. not letting me create an account on gvoice? clicking register, nothing happening.

/u/Edgewood6 · 1 votes · 1 year ago · Link

Anybofy know of sny fema scamms

/u/Dark_Valley · 1 votes · 1 year ago · Link

Thanks !

This is quality content .

/u/imhim11 · 1 votes · 11 months ago · Link

invite code please get back or any ccv site

/u/M0N5T3R · 1 votes · 11 months ago · Link

SMS VERIFICATION:

truverifi.com

/u/Insider321 · 1 votes · 11 months ago · Link

[removed]

/u/AutoModerator M · 1 votes · 11 months ago · Link

NO asking for other users to DM you.

This comment was posted automatically by a bot. All AutoModerator settings are configured by individual communities. Contact this community's Moderators to have your post approved if you believe this was in error.

/u/eighthlock · 1 votes · 11 months ago · Link

Has anyone used Evolved IDs before? They appear to be really nice quality and good prices. I have never seen a VA fake ID that looks that good, with the see-through window and all, so I have some doubt. I would like to try them if anyone can verify they are legit vendors. Thanks!

/u/Bubba111 · 1 votes · 11 months ago · Link

Thank you bro!!:D

/u/Bubba111 · 1 votes · 11 months ago · Link

Question!?? Are those Telegram skimming channels fraud or are they real? At least some of them. Im new here and I just want to learn. Anything I should look out for? Any help is appreciated

/u/cuervotoxico · 1 votes · 11 months ago · Link

Where can I find sum good tutorial about vpn socks and all that safe shit? What is for what l, the ways to do it?

/u/saadhh · 1 votes · 11 months ago · Link

[removed]

/u/AutoModerator M · 1 votes · 11 months ago · Link

NO asking for direct messaging.

This comment was posted automatically by a bot. All AutoModerator settings are configured by individual communities. Contact this community's Moderators to have your post approved if you believe this was in error.

/u/david444 · 1 votes · 11 months ago · Link

where can i find hacks for how to stay on dating sites without my profile being removed..

/u/lilgang211 · 1 votes · 10 months ago · Link

anyone got a bin checker list?

/u/dabaddest · 1 votes · 10 months ago · Link

Is there an updated address for benumb?

/u/millionaireman · 1 votes · 10 months ago · Link

[removed]

/u/AutoModerator M · 1 votes · 10 months ago · Link

NO asking for direct messaging.

This comment was posted automatically by a bot. All AutoModerator settings are configured by individual communities. Contact this community's Moderators to have your post approved if you believe this was in error.

/u/nastiwan · 1 votes · 10 months ago · Link

where is a good place to buy benumb invite codes?

/u/BelfortCash · 1 votes · 10 months ago · Link

Where can I get the Genis Market invitation code?

/u/Copperz · 1 votes · 10 months ago · Link

Buy that from trusted Vendors on Markets.

/u/swingmydoor03 · 1 votes · 10 months ago · Link

Can somebody look out with a invite code for benumb and genesis? and whats the jabber?

/u/darkhack · 1 votes · 10 months ago · Link

great resources

BENUMB SHOP uses an invite code which was not provided on the post

/u/kluisdf123 · 1 votes · 9 months ago · Link

does anyone have a invite code to Benumb

/u/SENSEIImperial0539 · 1 votes · 9 months ago · Link

Oh yea... its 6 months later and this thread still hitting fashoo yall blessed the gang with this one !!!!!

/u/humanrobot818 · 1 votes · 9 months ago · Link

How do I get a login code for benumb, thank you

/u/sagasayian · 1 votes · 9 months ago · Link

so im assuming no one is giving the code how do you get it then someone point the noobs in the right direction please

/u/ballinazz3 · 1 votes · 9 months ago · Link

can i get an invite code to genesis.market and benumb.

/u/trap_lord · 1 votes · 9 months ago · Link

invite code to benumb cc market

/u/payme21 · 1 votes · 9 months ago · Link

looking for the safest site to mine btc with stolen cc's that DO NOT require selfie verification.. have nailed everything else (eg. ID and phone number), but DON'T KNOW how to get around this last part.. seems most popular sites like paybis have really amped up their security, but there's GOTTA BE some cowboys left out there, surly!.... donations for help/advice will be rewarded once i get past this hurdle!

/u/random281 · 1 votes · 9 months ago · Link

/d/freelance is quite good resource for fraud.

P.S. will swap Genesis invitation for Benumb.

/u/DullzPassionate · 1 votes · 6 months ago · Link

I don't have either, could you bless the kid? thanks in advance

/u/iBCrippiN · 1 votes · 8 months ago · Link

what does the SSN decoder do? this is some real sauce

/u/Black-Wall · 1 votes · 8 months ago · Link

Pp24.ws

< I don't see an option to register. Do they have business fullz, or just the regular?

/u/nomtim MOD OP · 1 votes · 7 months ago · Link

There's a red button. No, regular only.

/u/jetl7972 · 1 votes · 7 months ago · Link

Thanks! Any other SSN look-up, guys?

/u/Bagchaser24 · 1 votes · 7 months ago · Link

Appreciate it

/u/RA1N · 1 votes · 6 months ago · Link

Thank you for the information!

/u/autionx · 1 votes · 6 months ago · Link

Bless you Man

/u/koopa421 · 1 votes · 6 months ago · Link

RobinHood has virtual cards. Buy a buncha fulls and you can run up a couple hundred every card through referrals. Thanks for the info!

/u/DullzPassionate · 1 votes · 6 months ago · Link

Could someone shoot me a genesis invite ?

/u/buyer4life · 1 votes · 5 months ago · Link

Hi bro /u/nomtim how to register to Pp24.ws please ? Cant find any way signup on the website

/u/FlyerSly02 · 1 votes · 5 months ago · Link

i need genesis and benumb invites will pay if necessary

/u/FUD_destroyer · 1 votes · 5 months ago · Link

This should be pinned to Dread Frontpage! The best resource I've read so far, hands down.

/u/DWdenizen777 · 1 votes · 5 months ago · Link

Awesome, Thanks for this.

/u/fraudboy69 · 1 votes · 4 months ago · Link

how is ezzocard?

/u/yummyprince · 1 votes · 4 months ago · Link

[removed by moderators]

/u/revo32311 · 1 votes · 3 months ago · Link

anyone has tried this website Hgn01.ru. would appreciate any help

/u/juanito3818 · 1 votes · 2 months ago · Link

Thank you for the share. How do i get a invitation for the fullz site? If anyone could plug me in id be so thankful.

/u/BaggioCafe · 1 votes · 2 months ago · Link

I'm kind of a nood and I'm trying to understand Just-Kill. It looks really cool but I don't understand some of the terminology or how it works. For instance:

MMN Search

Pros + DL - I understand the DL part but what is the Pros?

What are "Real Scans"?

What is Flood? Is it literally just flooding a phone number with a bunch of calls?

Lastly, how would I get answers to these and other questions I might have about what the service entails? I don't see a way to contact the owner.

Thanks for any advice in advance.

/u/kinghustle123 · 1 votes · 1 month ago · Link

Thanks bro

/u/00xx00 · 0 votes · 1 year ago · Link

Nice one, I need a personal training on this, I'v never card before but wants to start, any means to coach me privately via secured chat?? . I wil appreciate

/u/docmartian88 · 1 votes · 1 year ago · Link

[removed]

/u/AutoModerator M · 1 votes · 1 year ago · Link

NO asking for other users to DM you.

Do not ask users to divert conversations to PMs in any manner. This includes any contact info. To cut down on scams and false sales and transactions, we are instituting temporary bans for users violating this policy.

This comment was posted automatically by a bot. All AutoModerator settings are configured by individual communities. Contact this community's Moderators to have your post approved if you believe this was in error.

/u/billheffy · 0 votes · 10 months ago · Link

Could a brother help out a fellow unorthodox entrepreneur with a genesis invite.

/u/Preparation2022 · 0 votes · 5 months ago · Link

Sounds good! Excellent thread, very informative!